Sometimes i think about the enlightenment's "penny universities", the post-impressionist's frequent café meetings, or mid-19th century english dinner clubs and i wish i could start or join something similar; however i dont think the actual demand in real life for such a thing would be that high, plus where would i find the space to host something (thats not my home)? None of my friends are interested in philosophy or religion or art (except one with a deep passion for politics), and yet i wish i could discuss and talk at length about such topics over dinner and a glass of wine, or a coffee cup between lectures and errands. I feel that since the digital age we have started to get more and more out of touch with each other. Yes we can communicate online in a myriad of ways, but I think there is something special about having to travel to a specific place at a specific time to enter some discussion(s) on an intellectual topic.
I agree, Kode. There's nothing quite like getting together in real life with a group of people to have a discussion. I love the idea of 'penny universities' and it would make a very good title for a discussion group - and a pub that serves coffee late morning or a quiet afternoon might work as a venue. I'd love to attend something like that, as I'm sure others would. Thank you very much for your thought-provoking comment!
I also feel that substack is a place for the exchange of ideas, and your substack is one that I treasure for its intelligent, well thought out observations and excellent, readable prose. Lovely.
Wendy, that is such a touching thing to hear. I feel very honoured. Substack really does feel like a very nice, inclusive club for great conversations, doesn't it? Many thanks for your generous comment.
I've always been fascinated by British clubs. In literature men are always spending so much time there. the quintessential club for me is the shabby "Beargarden" in Trollope's The way We Live Now.
I'm going to London next week and am invited to lunch at a club. I'm very (unduly) excited.
Me too, David, as regards loving 19th century writers' accounts of British clubs. I've enjoyed my peek inside the Athenaeum and the Liberal Club, and given a talk at the Oxford and Cambridge Club - all lovely. I think many of them are modelled on the libraries and dining rooms of wealthier Oxbridge colleges! I hope you enjoy your lunch, and trip to London.
We have a fabulous book club as well, lots of reads like Barbara Pym. BTW Dorothy L. Sayers wrote some of her books in our library and Jane Gardam is a member; JG mentioned the Club in some of her books and a short story.
Oh, I hadn't realized you were a member! I'd definitely be interested in coming along to an open evening. It is such a beautiful place, and a very impressive membership.
Ann, thank you for including me in your roundup along with Victoria Olsen, Joanna Wohlfarth, Mary Robyn, Linnesby and other fine writers I have yet to discover. As for clubs, perhaps you and I will meet someday in an enlightened one. I did get into the Reform Club once but doubt it’s your style.
You’re very welcome & I’d be very happy to meet you in any club you like, Rona! I do love all the old-world grandeur of those gentlemen’s clubs and have been inside one or two. But it’s good to know some are at last moving with the times.
Thank you Laura! Great to have met you here, in this friendly Substack salon, and enjoy a six-month sense of camaraderie. I really enjoy your biographical posts too, and how you keep your readers updated on new developments on the stories you've researched.
This is wonderful and informative as always, Ann. Hard to imagine Dame Judi Dench as less welcome than her portrait. I have this picture in my head of her framed image placed in a chair and a bunch of twelve-year-old boys jostling to be seated next to it. Then someone proposes the idea that maybe they could invite the national treasure herself, but then someone else points out that she’s a girl. And then there’s the lightbulb moment: why don’t we let girls in? Thank you for telling the story of times when things were different.
Congratulations on the well-deserved recognition of your Barbara Pym article. And thank you for including me in your Substack roundup! I’m honored to be mentioned next to such talented writers.
Thanks Mary - yes it's funny about Judi Dench - impressive women could be adored from a safe distance! I think humans generally are resistant to change, and there's something to be said for keeping old traditions. But I'm just reminded of how long Cambridge University resisted having women as members (until 1948), and missed out on the contribution of so many brilliant women scientists, lecturers and scholars because of that blinkered view.
Many thanks, Victoria, that's really kind. I enjoyed your post greatly, and your description of grandmother's crocheted hats did make me laugh. She'd be proud of your own craft with words.
Congratulations on your anniversary, Ann. And here’s to many more! Another interesting post. I love the many gentleman’s clubs in literature. And the idea of the Substack Salon keeps cropping up - a lovely viewpoint.
Many thanks Victoria! Yes I agree about gentlemen’s clubs having a special place in literature - and was glad to be reminded about the women’s club that features at the start of The Enchanted April too.
Thank you for bringing the history of women's clubs in London to readers' attention. A fascinating article. I continue to be stunned about how long certain things take.
Thank you very much Nancy, I enjoy finding out about women's clubs too! It does seem unfair that more of them didn't continue... and that the idea of excluding women from the men's clubs became so entrenched.
Congratulations on your six-month anniversary, Ann! You have so much to be proud of - the hard work you put into your Substack really shows! This is a wonderful round-up...so many links to distract me from the work I should really be doing...
Ah, thanks Jodi, that's very kind! It makes research more fun, being able to share it - and your writing and photos are so enjoyable, and highly distracting for me as I dream of travelling to more great cities while I still have enough energy (!).
Ps The Jane Austen-related transcription call looks intriguing. Years ago I hopped for a time onto an open online project inviting people to transcribe Jeremy Bentham's many untranscribed papers. It was surprisingly fascinating to be hanging out so intimately in a known-to-one person's handwriting and reading his thoughts directly, maybe for the first time. Used to work a bit with manuscripts of early Sanskrit texts, a long time ago, but the handwriting there was by anonymous copiers of older works, so it didn't have quite that same person-to-person feel.
Apparently Jane Austen herself would transcribe her first MSS into a more legible copperplate handwriting before sending them into her publisher. Each one would take her 3 months to transcribe. I was always in awe of that -- it made me realize that she didn't just scribble away and have done with it.
Thank you for all your great support and it's wonderful having your contribution to the discussion. Yes it's funny how, without intending to, 6 months became significant and I realized I wanted to draw together my writing from different places under one title that's meaningful to me. The Ladies' Dining Society 1890-1914 was my first (non-academic) published and paid for article - commissioned by the Oxford Dictionary of National Biography in 2016 (later summarized by Wiki with my agreement)- and it started a new stage in my writing life, away from academia. RE: transcribing, that's fascinating to hear that Austen spent three months just doing that! Must have been tempting to keep tweaking her manuscript...
How marvelous — so it represents new beginnings twice over! Both that first article and everything that's come after, and the Substack as a way to pull it all together. I love that. Will look up the wiki article.
Jane Austen: it was sort of nice, almost inspiring, to see that she didn't avoid the boring parts of writing, the stuff that no one wants to do. 3 months of just copying! That's discipline. And agreed, one longs to know if she edited along the way😊.
Thanks! The Ladies’ Dining Society was such an amazing group- not sure how often they met, but at least once or twice a year until 1914. I’m enjoying delving into their individual stories.
Sometimes i think about the enlightenment's "penny universities", the post-impressionist's frequent café meetings, or mid-19th century english dinner clubs and i wish i could start or join something similar; however i dont think the actual demand in real life for such a thing would be that high, plus where would i find the space to host something (thats not my home)? None of my friends are interested in philosophy or religion or art (except one with a deep passion for politics), and yet i wish i could discuss and talk at length about such topics over dinner and a glass of wine, or a coffee cup between lectures and errands. I feel that since the digital age we have started to get more and more out of touch with each other. Yes we can communicate online in a myriad of ways, but I think there is something special about having to travel to a specific place at a specific time to enter some discussion(s) on an intellectual topic.
I agree, Kode. There's nothing quite like getting together in real life with a group of people to have a discussion. I love the idea of 'penny universities' and it would make a very good title for a discussion group - and a pub that serves coffee late morning or a quiet afternoon might work as a venue. I'd love to attend something like that, as I'm sure others would. Thank you very much for your thought-provoking comment!
I also feel that substack is a place for the exchange of ideas, and your substack is one that I treasure for its intelligent, well thought out observations and excellent, readable prose. Lovely.
Wendy, that is such a touching thing to hear. I feel very honoured. Substack really does feel like a very nice, inclusive club for great conversations, doesn't it? Many thanks for your generous comment.
I've always been fascinated by British clubs. In literature men are always spending so much time there. the quintessential club for me is the shabby "Beargarden" in Trollope's The way We Live Now.
I'm going to London next week and am invited to lunch at a club. I'm very (unduly) excited.
Me too, David, as regards loving 19th century writers' accounts of British clubs. I've enjoyed my peek inside the Athenaeum and the Liberal Club, and given a talk at the Oxford and Cambridge Club - all lovely. I think many of them are modelled on the libraries and dining rooms of wealthier Oxbridge colleges! I hope you enjoy your lunch, and trip to London.
Try the University Women's Club. I am sure you will enjoy it.
Yes! A friend belongs, and has promised to invite me to dinner there. Another long-established club. Thanks, Susana.
We have a fabulous book club as well, lots of reads like Barbara Pym. BTW Dorothy L. Sayers wrote some of her books in our library and Jane Gardam is a member; JG mentioned the Club in some of her books and a short story.
Oh, I hadn't realized you were a member! I'd definitely be interested in coming along to an open evening. It is such a beautiful place, and a very impressive membership.
I sent you a pic via FB Messenger
Ann, thank you for including me in your roundup along with Victoria Olsen, Joanna Wohlfarth, Mary Robyn, Linnesby and other fine writers I have yet to discover. As for clubs, perhaps you and I will meet someday in an enlightened one. I did get into the Reform Club once but doubt it’s your style.
You’re very welcome & I’d be very happy to meet you in any club you like, Rona! I do love all the old-world grandeur of those gentlemen’s clubs and have been inside one or two. But it’s good to know some are at last moving with the times.
It’s not as if I have privileges anywhere!
Ann, this is wonderful! What a fantastic discussion of conversation, and embodiment of it too.
The perfect marker of your 6th month anniversary and of the new title also.
Thank you so much for drawing me into the conversation, along with the others you bring in here.
Many congrats Ann on six months of your glorious Substack. Always a great pleasure.
I'm so interested in salons.... an arena in which women could be equal and indeed powerful.
I too adored Kate Jones on motherhood and will look forward to your other recommendations... here's to the next 6 months!
Thank you Laura! Great to have met you here, in this friendly Substack salon, and enjoy a six-month sense of camaraderie. I really enjoy your biographical posts too, and how you keep your readers updated on new developments on the stories you've researched.
❤️
Thank you for the mention, Ann! Interesting discussion on clubs- and happy six months of writing here! 😀
Thank you Kate! Will be very interested to hear about your new writing adventures too.
This is wonderful and informative as always, Ann. Hard to imagine Dame Judi Dench as less welcome than her portrait. I have this picture in my head of her framed image placed in a chair and a bunch of twelve-year-old boys jostling to be seated next to it. Then someone proposes the idea that maybe they could invite the national treasure herself, but then someone else points out that she’s a girl. And then there’s the lightbulb moment: why don’t we let girls in? Thank you for telling the story of times when things were different.
Congratulations on the well-deserved recognition of your Barbara Pym article. And thank you for including me in your Substack roundup! I’m honored to be mentioned next to such talented writers.
Thanks Mary - yes it's funny about Judi Dench - impressive women could be adored from a safe distance! I think humans generally are resistant to change, and there's something to be said for keeping old traditions. But I'm just reminded of how long Cambridge University resisted having women as members (until 1948), and missed out on the contribution of so many brilliant women scientists, lecturers and scholars because of that blinkered view.
Another wonderful post, Ann, with so much to click through to read! You’re providing a valuable service.
And thanks for mentioning me in such company!
Many thanks, Victoria, that's really kind. I enjoyed your post greatly, and your description of grandmother's crocheted hats did make me laugh. She'd be proud of your own craft with words.
cynically I wonder if the thought of an expensive lawsuit was more about hitting the pocket as opposed to doing the right thing?
I would agree! It did seem to focus the mind…
Congratulations on your anniversary, Ann. And here’s to many more! Another interesting post. I love the many gentleman’s clubs in literature. And the idea of the Substack Salon keeps cropping up - a lovely viewpoint.
Many thanks Victoria! Yes I agree about gentlemen’s clubs having a special place in literature - and was glad to be reminded about the women’s club that features at the start of The Enchanted April too.
The only women’s club I’ve read about is the one at which Lottie and Rose in Enchanted April meet. Wonderful encounter.
Oh gosh yes, that’s such a brilliant opening scene, Susan! Will add that to my file…
Thank you for bringing the history of women's clubs in London to readers' attention. A fascinating article. I continue to be stunned about how long certain things take.
Thank you very much Nancy, I enjoy finding out about women's clubs too! It does seem unfair that more of them didn't continue... and that the idea of excluding women from the men's clubs became so entrenched.
Congratulations on your six-month anniversary, Ann! You have so much to be proud of - the hard work you put into your Substack really shows! This is a wonderful round-up...so many links to distract me from the work I should really be doing...
Ah, thanks Jodi, that's very kind! It makes research more fun, being able to share it - and your writing and photos are so enjoyable, and highly distracting for me as I dream of travelling to more great cities while I still have enough energy (!).
Ps The Jane Austen-related transcription call looks intriguing. Years ago I hopped for a time onto an open online project inviting people to transcribe Jeremy Bentham's many untranscribed papers. It was surprisingly fascinating to be hanging out so intimately in a known-to-one person's handwriting and reading his thoughts directly, maybe for the first time. Used to work a bit with manuscripts of early Sanskrit texts, a long time ago, but the handwriting there was by anonymous copiers of older works, so it didn't have quite that same person-to-person feel.
Apparently Jane Austen herself would transcribe her first MSS into a more legible copperplate handwriting before sending them into her publisher. Each one would take her 3 months to transcribe. I was always in awe of that -- it made me realize that she didn't just scribble away and have done with it.
Thank you for all your great support and it's wonderful having your contribution to the discussion. Yes it's funny how, without intending to, 6 months became significant and I realized I wanted to draw together my writing from different places under one title that's meaningful to me. The Ladies' Dining Society 1890-1914 was my first (non-academic) published and paid for article - commissioned by the Oxford Dictionary of National Biography in 2016 (later summarized by Wiki with my agreement)- and it started a new stage in my writing life, away from academia. RE: transcribing, that's fascinating to hear that Austen spent three months just doing that! Must have been tempting to keep tweaking her manuscript...
How marvelous — so it represents new beginnings twice over! Both that first article and everything that's come after, and the Substack as a way to pull it all together. I love that. Will look up the wiki article.
Jane Austen: it was sort of nice, almost inspiring, to see that she didn't avoid the boring parts of writing, the stuff that no one wants to do. 3 months of just copying! That's discipline. And agreed, one longs to know if she edited along the way😊.
Just read the Wiki. What an extraordinary crowd — and what a feat of research, to get such a sense of them all and the world they inhabited together.
Thanks! The Ladies’ Dining Society was such an amazing group- not sure how often they met, but at least once or twice a year until 1914. I’m enjoying delving into their individual stories.